You could have studied law in Malaysia. What tempted you to move abroad to do that?
I first heard about the University of Hull through Brickfields Asia College in Malaysia, which has a partnership with Hull.
Because Malaysia’s legal system is largely based on English law, studying Law in England is a popular option for aspiring lawyers here.
You were 22 when you moved to England to study. How did you find that culture change?
It was a shock at first. Everything was new, and there were lots of changes to get used to, but you learn to adapt.
What really helped me was the community at Hull. The international student support team were incredibly friendly and always there to help whenever we needed anything. On top there were helpful Malaysian students who were already studying in Hull.
I have plenty of fond memories from my time at Hull: square pizzas, late-night studying with friends and meals at the Oriental Palace, a popular Chinese restaurant in the city. But my favourite memory must be my graduation ceremony. That was the moment when it felt like all the sacrifices had been worth it.
You’ve remained connected to the university through the Malaysian alumni network. When you’re so busy running your law firm, what makes you still put time and energy into that?
Having a strong network is important. We have a good alumni database, and, through the association, we try to stay connected with recent graduates. We organise networking events, dinners and lunches, which help people reconnect and build new relationships. I think it's important to maintain those connections so future graduates can benefit from them too.
It's not just law graduates either. Our members come from all kinds of backgrounds, including business, accounting and more.
I've personally benefited from the network and have met so many fellow alumni. One of our members was recently appointed as a Judicial Commissioner in Malaysia, while others have gone on to successful careers in politics and business. It really shows how valuable a strong network can be. Networks can be a powerful thing.
It was only a matter of a few years between you qualifying as a lawyer in Malaysia and founding your own law firm aged 29. That’s a brave step, what made you take it?
There will never be a day when you are ready. You just do it – that’s what makes you ready.”
My favourite saying is: “There will never be a day when you are ready. You just do it – that’s what makes you ready.” If you asked me now, I'd probably still say I'm not ready!
When it came to setting up the firm, my business partner, Jody Hong, and I had been classmates at the University of Hull. We stayed friends after returning to Malaysia and remained connected through the alumni network. At the time, I was considering starting my own practice, while Jody was looking for a new opportunity, so it made sense for us to do it together.
We cover different areas of law. I specialise in civil litigation, while Jody specialises in corporate law. We also have another partner who specialises in litigation and banking.
We launched the business during the COVID-19 pandemic in 2021, so we've faced plenty of challenges. But when you start a business during such a difficult time, you know things can only get better.
We launched the business during the COVID-19 pandemic in 2021, so we've faced many challenges. But when you start a business during such a difficult time, you know things can only get better!
I wanted to build a law firm that reflected my own approach. We've moved away from more traditional ways of working and adopted a flexible model with reduced working hours. It's better for everyone and shows that it's possible to achieve just as much as people working longer days.
The norm in Malaysia, especially in the corporate world, is 9am to 6pm. We didn't want everyone stuck in traffic trying to get to the office at the same time, so we spoke to the team and decided to work from 10am to 5pm instead. We also don't have an office dress code, except for meetings and court appearances. The focus is on being productive while still having a good quality of life outside work.
Are there other ways your firm is different?
In traditional law firms, there's often a heavy reliance on paperwork, documentation and physical files. The mindset can sometimes be, "If it isn't broken, why fix it?" As a result, some firms can be hesitant to make changes, often because of the costs involved.
We take a different approach to running a law firm. We really embrace technology and use it to make our work more efficient while still providing a high-quality service to our clients.
We take a different approach to running a law firm. We really embrace technology and use it to make our work more efficient while still providing a high-quality service to our clients.
AI, for example, can be useful for challenging your thinking, refining arguments and considering different perspectives. It's a valuable tool, but it's important to use your own judgement and make sure everything is accurate, because we know it doesn't always get things right.
I see more younger lawyers thinking this way now. It just takes one or two people to start to change the behaviour and the mindset, doesn’t it?
In our sector, there are various software tools that help us carry out legal research more efficiently.
We work in the cloud and store everything digitally, which is still quite different from the norm in Malaysia. Many firms continue to follow a more traditional approach and prefer to have physical files on their desks.
We work in the cloud and store everything digitally, which is still quite different from the norm in Malaysia. Many firms continue to follow a more traditional approach and prefer to have physical files on their desks.
We also want to reduce our environmental impact, so using technology not only allows us to work efficiently from anywhere but also supports our sustainability goals.
The pandemic accelerated a lot of change. We now have court hearings conducted via Zoom in Malaysia, and it's even possible to hold full trials online. You simply log in, set up your computer and attend the hearing virtually. Who knows what legal practice will look like in another five years as technology continues to evolve?
Has that different approach helped you to recruit?
Oh yes. There are six of us in the firm now, four of whom are lawyers. We advertise our benefits online, and I'm sure they're one of the reasons so many people apply to work with us. We also provide a complimentary healthy breakfast every Wednesday and make time to socialise as a team.
The response from clients has been very positive. Of course, I can't speak on their behalf, but you can see our reviews online and, thankfully, our clients seem very satisfied.
Most of our new clients come through referrals. We started the firm with just one client and have built it from there. When you give clients your very best, they're more likely to recommend you to others.
You’ve been practising law for eight years now. Do you have one case that’s the most memorable for you?
One case that has always stayed with me was my very first adoption case. In Malaysia, adoptions must go through the courts. I was acting for a street vendor whose employee had given birth to a baby girl and then disappeared.
The street vendor had raised the child as his own for nearly three years, despite having no legal documentation in place. He came to us because he wanted to provide her with an education, even though he had no obligation to do so.
It wasn't a high-profile or glamorous case, but at its heart it was a story of love: someone willing to give everything he could for a child, despite having very little himself.
It wasn't a high-profile or glamorous case, but at its heart it was a story of love: someone willing to give everything he could for a child, despite having very little himself.
I still vividly remember him paying his legal bill. He took the money from his pockets, wrapped in newspaper and secured with rubber bands. It was clear he didn't earn much. That case reminded me that the law isn't just about large corporations or major transactions. It's about helping people and making a difference in their lives.